S6 Ep 5 - Ivy: Continuing Our Cowboy Adventure With More Short Stories of Love and Betrayal Inspired By Taylor Swift’s Evermore Hit, “Ivy”
[00:00:11.900] - Adrienne
Hey there, listeners!
[00:00:14.310] - Katarina
How are you doing?
[00:00:15.830] - Adrienne
Welcome to Rhapsody in Reverie, a show where music and storytelling go hand in hand. I'm your goddamn blaze in the dark, Adrienne--
[00:00:26.480] - Katarina
--and I am your opal-eyed, magnificently cursed secret lover, Katarina.
[00:00:32.870] - Adrienne
And today we've got a great show for you, because, for all you astute Taylor Swift fans, you'll probably guess it; we're talking about "Ivy" today.
[00:00:46.620] - Katarina
(Claps) I'm going to assume that you're happy because obviously, if you're clicking in from last time, you'll know that we've been on a bit of a Taylor Swift kick.
[00:00:54.470] - Adrienne
Just a little bit.
[00:00:56.360] - Katarina
Just-- un poquito.
[00:00:56.360] - Adrienne
Un poquito. Yeah, but no, we're talking about another Taylor Swift song from her most recent album, Evermore. Which, again, if you listened to our last episode, you'll know that I, in particular, have been obsessed with this album.
[00:01:15.530] - Katarina
(Laughs)Yes.
[00:01:16.250] - Adrienne
We won't get too much into my obsession... Because we've already talked about it at length in last week's episode, but we are going to talk about this song. Because we let it inspire another set of stories for you. And again, we are doing another bit of revisiting.
[00:01:38.870] - Katarina
Hah!
[00:01:38.930] - Adrienne
If you remember, dear listeners, our characters, Willow and Judah, from our last two episodes, you know, we, we just can't get enough of Judah and his... Life Choices.
[00:01:57.560] - Katarina
(Laughs) Something about Willow and Judah lives in our heads rent free, and until they have escaped and ridden off into the sunset, a la "Shane," we got to keep writing about them. So we hope that you're excited to tune in for the, let's face it, inevitable third installment in our cowboy exorcist and his faithful poltergeist story.
[00:02:21.020] - Adrienne
Yes, but before we get into our stories, the backdrop of these stories is the song "Ivy" off of Evermore. So let's talk about that song, because I love that song so much. And it was a song that, again, just evoked a lot of imagery in my head as I was listening to it. And again, it was another scenario in which I listened to it, and I came to you, Katarina, and I was like, "OK, but hear me out."
[00:03:02.450] - Katarina
Yeah. Because admittedly, when you said "another one," I wasn't sure if there were, if there were more aspects of the story to tell when it came to Judah and Willow. I admittedly was like, "are you sure?"
[00:03:18.680] - Adrienne
(Laughs)
[00:03:19.250] - Katarina
But. But! In-- and, to, to give you credit where credit is due, I think that it is a necessary piece to their puzzle. I think that this is going, this episode will inevitably flesh them out more. But before we get into that, what specific imagery actually led you to want to write another installment for them?
[00:03:42.920] - Adrienne
So I, I listened to the album Evermore, like I said, you know, right as it came out and I listened to all the songs and I first you know, the first song "Willow" struck me and I was like, "oh my God, I love this song." And a lot of the songs on that album struck me as like, "oh my God, I love that song." But particularly "Ivy," you know, as I kept listening to the album over and over and over again, it just was such a beautiful song to me. It's a complex song to me, like emotionally, there's something about the story of that song that was just so special because it--you know, on the surface, you know, lyrically, that song is about a woman having an affair, having these thoughts about a certain somebody that's not her husband.
[00:04:41.330] - Katarina
Yeah.
[00:04:42.020] - Adrienne
And, you know, when you look at it like that, that can be a kind of one dimensional story. Right? Like, all right. Y-you get-- or like, not one dimensional story, but like... It's a story--
[00:04:54.780] - Katarina
Straight forward.
[00:04:55.490] - Adrienne
Yeah, I feel like a lot of people have a particular idea in their head when they hear that story. Like if somebody tells you, they're like, "oh, this is my gut reaction to that experience." But what I love about "Ivy," I feel like I experience so many different emotions with the different lines of that song. Like there's an element of it that's so sad and heartbreaking.
[00:05:20.700] - Katarina
Yeah.
[00:05:21.080] - Adrienne
But there's also this joy and there's this almost happiness and levity to it as well.
[00:05:29.000] - Katarina
Yeah.
[00:05:29.840] - Adrienne
And I just love the way those different feelings just kind of ebb and flow out of you as you're listening to that song. And that's really kind of what I gravitated towards. And it just kind of brought the imagery of the story that Taylor was telling in my brain, like this idea of being in love with someone you're not supposed to be in love with and hiding and "oh, no, what if so-and-so finds out?" kind of thing. That kind of imagery in my head. And I, I really wanted to grab on to it, and that's kind of what it really led to. And I guess, should we go into kind of a little bit of what this story is about? Because I feel like.
[00:06:15.680] - Katarina
Well, I guess my-- I mean, my follow up question would have been which lyrics in particular really struck you in terms of, like, imagery for your story?
[00:06:24.060] - Adrienne
The lyrics in the song are great. Um, one of the lyrics that sticks out in particular to me, which I think you'll definitely sort of see as we read our stories... At the end of that last verse where she's like, "tell me to run or dare to sit and watch what will become as we drink my husband's wine." I love that. I love that verse. It's so good. And that's what I think really, really struck me kind of every time I listen to that song, like it always strikes me. 'Cause there's something about the delivery when she's singing that song too. It's almost like you can see the grimace on her face and she's like singing it, where she's just "we're going down somewhere."
[00:07:11.220] - Katarina
She's like, "either put up or shut up." It definitely is the emotional gut punch of the song.
[00:07:16.630] - Adrienne
Yeah.
[00:07:16.840] - Katarina
Like you can tell, because that's like the turning point, right? She's in the song at least telling her lover, "either we're going to make this work, we're going to leave, or we're going to have to put up with it and just deal with this yearning for the rest of our lives."
[00:07:30.000] - Adrienne
(Laughs) Yeah.
[00:07:30.600] - Katarina
Like, that's it.
[00:07:31.900] - Adrienne
Yeah, I think that's the thing. That's the moment that really kind of struck me as... What made me want to continue the Willow, Judah saga that we are kind of embarking on, in an interesting new way. Because the-- the kind of set up for these stories and what we're going to be doing is we are continuing Judah's story, but we're going at it from the perspective of his wife, or at least I am, in my story.
[00:08:11.010] - Katarina
Who, who audience, if you will remember, in the episode prior to this one, his wife, Ivy, wink, wink, nudge, nudge, was briefly mentioned in, in my story. Where she wasn't quite the shrew, but she didn't get a lot of character development.
[00:08:32.010] - Adrienne
Yeah.
[00:08:33.000] - Katarina
Other than, "oh, holy shit, my husband is summoning demons in the barn and also is cheating on me," which, in her defense, I...I would certainly react. I don't know if what you'd call her response to the situation an overreaction, but I would certainly react.
[00:08:56.060] - Adrienne
Yeah, I mean, what do you-- what do you do, like--
[00:08:59.650] - Katarina
What do you do?
[00:09:01.450] - Adrienne
And, you know, I think... And that's really kind of what it was. It was like we had set up this kind of narrative where we had, you know, Willow and Judah and Judah's cheating on his wife. And as I was listening to "Ivy" and thinking about the stories that we were writing for Willow, I was... I kind of was just like, well, what about the wife? Like...
[00:09:23.090] - Katarina
(Laughs) What about the wife?
[00:09:24.910] - Adrienne
Well, because I was thinking about --because we were having conversations, you know, building out the story and building out the characters in the story. And we had this sort of plan as far this kind of cheating affair kind of thing. And I remember as we were setting it up, you know, one of the things that is prevalent in your story is this, this kind of conflict between what Judah's doing and God and natural law and like, that kind of thing. And in your story, you kind of set it up where his wife is this very much pious-- like she's a she's a full, God fearing woman. And, and yet, at the end of your story, she you know, she commits this--
[00:10:09.040] - Katarina
She does something pretty bad.
[00:10:10.870] - Adrienne
Yeah. No spoilers. Listeners, go back and listen. If you haven't.
[00:10:15.430] - Katarina
Yeah. Let's just say the flames of righteousness.... Smited... Smoted? Smote?
[00:10:22.990] - Adrienne
Smote, smite.
[00:10:24.550] - Katarina
Everyone.
[00:10:26.140] - Adrienne
Yeah. So like--
[00:10:27.340] - Katarina
Basically.
[00:10:28.510] - Adrienne
Bad things. And so as I was thinking about it, I'm just like, what, what would make somebody do that? But what would make somebody turn away from a life of piety?
[00:10:40.570] - Katarina
The, the simple life because like what is she? She's a rancher's wife.
[00:10:44.540] - Adrienne
Yeah. What would make you turn away from what you believe in to do something like what she ends up doing? And so I wanted to explore that because I wanted it to be a little more complicated than just, "oh, he cheated on me."
[00:11:03.610] - Katarina
Yeah. Because it can't just be that. Well, I mean, it could.
[00:11:07.240] - Adrienne
It could. But like--
[00:11:08.860] - Katarina
But we didn't want to be that simple. That's that's really what it comes down to. Would you like to know what Lyric particularly inspired me?
[00:11:18.790] - Adrienne
Yes. Yes, because I--
[00:11:21.760] - Katarina
I misheard a lyric. In fact, I only just now learned what the real lyric was, so. Do you do you know the line where it's "the old widow goes to the stone every day?"
[00:11:34.870] - Adrienne
Yeah.
[00:11:35.810] - Katarina
Yeah. I didn't hear "the old widow goes", I heard "the old little ghost." (laughs)
[00:11:42.350] - Adrienne
You know, in some ways it's a little similar.
[00:11:45.560] - Katarina
Yeah. It's just how she sings it. It's like how she's phrasing it.
[00:11:50.120] - Adrienne
Yeah.
[00:11:50.400] - Katarina
But yes, that's what was carrying me through this. It's not even the lyric. I was like, "oh cool. Ghost imagery. I like that!" Nah. But uh, good on-- good on T-swift for, for writing a very beautifully sad but joyous piece of music. It had a lot of interesting-- it was, it was an interesting dichotomy because like she is joyous in her love of this person, but she is also very much like "this sucks."
[00:12:23.540] - Adrienne
She's like "this is going to ruin me."
[00:12:27.680] - Katarina
"If we don't play our cards right."
[00:12:29.960] - Adrienne
But yeah, it's really just a beautiful you know, like you said, it's this beautiful dichotomy. I love this song. I dance around in my kitchen to this song all the time. I want to live in this song. And it's just so... It's just so nice to listen to. Also shout out to Bon Iver in the background with the vocal harmony. Beautiful.
[00:12:56.430] - Katarina
I love Bon Iver so much. His involvement in this album and in Folklore have just made this for me.
[00:13:03.770] - Adrienne
So beautiful. Oh gosh, it's the-- it's the pairing you didn't know you needed until you got it. So I am curious to know a little more about your, kind of, feelings with the song and the, kind of, your reaction and feeling to me kind of bringing up using this song as a continuation for the story. You touched on it a little, but I'm curious.
[00:13:32.260] - Katarina
OK.
[00:13:32.890] - Adrienne
I definitely sprung it on you.
[00:13:35.320] - Katarina
Yeah. Admittedly, I was like, "it's done though." But, but once you started talking about it, and like once you started explaining it and... Because I mean, we had, we had heard the song before when when we were working on the Willow episode, the whole album was living on my stereo on repeat just to get into that headspace. So I feel like even though my initial reaction was like, "huh?" It wasn't that much of a jump because again, it's a very it's a very tender song from the perspective of somebody who does and doesn't want to be cheating. So to, to give Ivy a little bit more of of of a background, especially one where she's faced with a similar situation to her husband and, not to spoil anything yet because I mean, I haven't read your story, but I know the general direction, quote unquote, that it's going to take. How differently she reacts to being placed in a similar situation versus how Judah and Willow reacted. I think it would shed some light on her decisions th-- that I made her make in mine. I think it was good to flesh it out for Judah as well, because not to, not to get into it immediately. But this is going to give Judah some insight into "how many lives has he ruined today?" Kind of a thing. Because, because his focus really was like himself and Willow. And this song is he, he's the husband providing the wine, blissfully unaware of his wife's infidelities. So that, that was like the big thing for me was like getting it in, like the flipped version of the song. So I'm... I'm ultimately glad we decided to do another Judah and Willow, for the sake of Ivy, because, again, I kind of made her this, like, shrew. Which again, in her defense, I would have reacted... Not in an identical way. I would not be out here burning hoes alive, but.
[00:15:53.270] - Adrienne
You know...
[00:15:54.500] - Katarina
I would be upset, I would be, I would be upsetty spaghetti, that's all.
[00:16:03.830] - Adrienne
"I'm a little miffed."
[00:16:05.660] - Katarina
I would-- I would--
[00:16:07.580] - Adrienne
Just- just- just a little.
[00:16:09.710] - Katarina
He'd be sleeping in the barn at the very least. And like, not in the nice, comfortable hay, like, with the cows. But yeah, I think, I think Ivy fit remarkably well. It also had that beautiful guitar that evoked a lot of feelings of like a Western. Again, like how "Willow" evoked that, like witchy Western vibe. "Ivy" evokes the more sentimental... I don't want to say like Little House on the Prairie, because that's not what our story is.
[00:16:41.780] - Adrienne
Not-- we're not, not to mislead you. That's not where this is--
[00:16:46.340] - Katarina
No, but it gave me like the "every person," like-- like an actual snapshot of what like a real couple might be going through in this time period and in this setting. As opposed to "Willow," which has such an inherently mystical and magical vibe to it, that allowed us to play a little bit more, this was much more tender and real. So I, I'm glad we did this. Any final thoughts regarding the song?
[00:17:18.190] - Adrienne
I'll just say I'm glad to know that you're glad. I felt like, you know, that meme from "It's Always Sunny" with Charlie. And--
[00:17:30.160] - Katarina
(Laughs)
[00:17:30.550] - Adrienne
I felt like that, like pitching both of these ideas, where I was like "but hear me out."
[00:17:35.940] - Katarina
Yeah. Yes. Because I think you pitched this while you were still writing "Willow." And I was like, "Ha. Ha. Ha. Are you are you kidding?" But, but I'm ultimately glad you did. Your crazy ideas have paid off thus far, at least in my opinion. And that's the opinion that counts the most. No I'm kidding.
[00:17:56.560] - Adrienne
Yeah. Everybody at home is like, "why did you do this?"
[00:18:00.850] - Katarina
But. But hear us out. I think that these stories now, again, I have no knowledge of what you've written specifically and you have no knowledge of what I've written specifically. But I, I have a good feeling about how it will tie things together. We're getting a more complete picture. And isn't that, at the end of the day, what you listeners really want from us, the most complete picture possible? Don't answer that.
[00:18:30.770] - Adrienne
It's too late now. You're getting it.
[00:18:33.650] - Katarina
You'll listen to your "Ivy" story and you'll like it. But... But that said, any last minute thoughts to say about "Ivy" and Taylor Swift in general?
[00:18:43.520]
Just that I love this song. Thank you. Taylor Swift, again, for saving my 2020 with your beautiful music.
[00:18:52.970] - Katarina
True. She really did.
[00:18:54.140] - Adrienne
She really did.
[00:18:55.970] - Katarina
Now, before we do our beautiful, beautiful deep dives into our stories, which I am very much looking forward to doing, it's time for everyone's favorite segment: Up and Comers! So this week we have Hello Atlantic. Who are they? They are an emo pop punk band from Rhode Island that are, let's just say, very electrifying and very spooky. The first time I heard them, I heard the song "Night Life," which has, in my opinion, big werewolf vibes. My sister argues with me that it has big vampire vibes, but according to the music video, it's got big clown vibes. So really--
[00:19:44.390] - Adrienne
(Gasps)
[00:19:44.390] - Katarina
Really, it's up to interpretation, but it's wonderful. It's very much an exciting and interesting sound. And I love what they do with the chorus in that song. I love their turn of phrase. I love everything about "Night Life." Their song "Awake Alive," reminds me a lot of this book called "The Fisherman," which is a horror novel. I will not elaborate further. And their newest song, "Tiny Dancing Ghost," came out this past December. Definitely listen to that. This band is full of bangers. I do not say that lightly. I know that you think I do, but I mean it this time. If you want to follow them on social media, they are @HelloAtlanticri on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. And if you follow them, please tell them that Rhapsody in Reverie sent you.
[00:20:38.230] - Both
Yay!
[00:20:38.600] - Katarina
And without further ado, that concludes the Up and Comers segment. Thank you so much Hello Atlantic for spicing up my 2021. That's all I can say.
[00:20:47.060] - Adrienne
Yeah, "Night Life" is a total banger.
[00:20:49.790] - Katarina
But yes, I think it's finally time for us to read to each other. It's story time, children!
[00:20:58.490] - Adrienne
It's story time!
[00:20:59.030] - Katarina
I've got my story time gnome that the listeners can't see. But those of you on Patreon, who are watching this, say hello to Jergnomathy!
[00:21:07.280] - Adrienne
Uh, hi Jergnomathy.
[00:21:09.740] - Katarina
He's happy to be here. I think it would make sense, based on the timelines of our stories that we have discussed, without giving too much away, because again, that's the whole point, I think it would be best if you went first. Because your story takes place parallel to our Willow/Judah stories from last time.
[00:21:30.690] - Adrienne
Yes, it does. So this is before the shit went down and the lead up to the shit going down.
[00:21:41.400] - Story 1
There was a palpable reverence hanging in the air as Ivy and Judah Masterson walked into her father’s church Sunday morning. Eyes cast over to the handsome couple and though no one dared to note it, their presence together was a holy vision not seen in this sacred place since their wedding. An event that - a year later - still sparked a hint of excitement amongst parishioners when brought up in polite conversation. The marriage of Pastor Donovan’s eldest daughter and Abraham Masterson’s only child certainly warranted such attention; and as Ivy clung onto the arm of her husband with her blond hair deftly pinned back in a tight bun, it seemed to each onlooker she passed with a smile that the bridal glow never left her face.
“Hello, Isaac” Ivy greeted warmly to the sole gentleman who moved to approach the couple.
“Ivy, good morning,” he smiled at her, bowing politely as Ivy hazarded placing a well-mannered hand on the tweed arm of his jacket. Such familiarity with any other man would have caused a deserved row to be sure, but everyone knew Isaac O’Brian had to be the exception. The twenty-five years Ivy and Isaac spent attached at the hip earned him such favor. Not even a mind as sharp as Judah Masterson’s could argue that, and Judah’s unmoved decorum assured to everyone that such a debate was not to be had.
“Isaac,” Judah nodded.
“Judah. Haven’t seen you here for Sunday service lately”
“Yes well tending the ranch keeps me busy,” Judah replied to Isaac, his piercing eyes scanning the room.
“Right... It’s hard to take time away from the farm as well, but Ma, Pa and I make due,” Isaac said, carefully masking a skepticism in his tone as he studied Ivy, who preoccupied her gaze with the hand she returned to Judah’s arm. From across the room, Judah locked eyes with his father, who upon catching the attention of his son, held up a hand and motioned for Judah to join him in conversation with Pastor Donovan.
“Excuse me,” Judah muttered, sliding out from under Ivy’s hand before walking towards the pulpit.
“Are you alright, Ivy?” Isaac asked, voice lowering slightly as he watched her pensively stare after Judah. Catching the corners of her mouth before they dropped any further on her face, Ivy turned back to Isaac.
“Of course, I am. It’s a lovely morning, isn’t it”
“You know I can tell when you are lying to me, Ivy vine” Isaac noted, hands clasped behind his back. For the first time that morning, Ivy met Isaac’s green eyes with hers and her courteous smile began to fail her again.
“It’s nothing, Isaac, really. With God’s grace, it’ll pass,” she straightened her shoulders and just as quickly as the smile left her face, it returned, “How are you, Isaac?” Giving Ivy a pointed look, Isaac nodded and moved on.
“Right as rain, Ivy. Speaking of, here’s something to cheer you up. We’ve got plenty of pumpkins ready for harvest back at the farm. I made sure to plant extra for you,” Isaac offered, matching the smile on Ivy’s face.
“Oh good! Thank you Isaac. Though I know you’re just angling for more of my pies this season,” Ivy grinned.
“My parents put me up to it too! No one makes them better than you, Ivy. Even my momma says so.”
“Well, I’ll be sure to bake one for each of you then,”
“Would you like to come by this afternoon to pick out your favorites? I know how much you like the harvest.” The question came out Isaac’s mouth swiftly and Ivy’s affirmative was almost as quick to follow, however, her eyes caught sight of the front of the church to her husband turning back to walk down the aisle of the church again.
“I I can’t, I’ll need to get supper started for Judah,” Ivy replied.
“Yes, yes of course.” Isaac nodded, rocking slightly on his heels and peering at the ground, “Well I’ll come by tomorrow with our best ones for you.”
“Thank you, Isaac, shall we all sit?” Ivy motioned to the pews up front as Judah rejoined her.
Once they were seated, the rest of the parishioners took their queue filling in the pews behind them. As Pastor Donovan began his sermon, he looked out to the congregation - Judah, Ivy, Isaac, Abraham and the O’Brians all sat in the front - and not a thing appeared out of place. Everything and everyone lined up perfectly in order - save for the singular hand resting out of a lap and in the sliver of distance between Ivy Masterson and Isaac O’Brian.
--
Dear Diary,
Last night in the barn, I witnessed a side of my husband I have never seen before. Judah. My husband. The man I stood with before God. The man who came into my father’s church and requested my hand. That man. Has been playing with… Oh I cannot even bear to name such vile things lest God strike me down with him. What has happened to the man I married? Charming, respectful and kind. He says he is remorseful, he’s agreed to coming back to church and the Lord. I want to believe him. I want to believe he believes himself. But I look into his eyes and I see nothing. Worse, I feel nothing.
Is this God’s punishment for thoughts I… Oh diary, what I am about to write I dare not speak out loud. Even holding them in my mind fills me with fear. But I find myself thinking of a man who is not my husband. And I cannot seem to help it. How will God ever forgive me for these improper imaginings inside of me? They enter in the night and proliferate through my dreams, and every time I wake, I pray them away... only to sit next to Isaac in the pews of daddy’s church and wonder.... Wonder what a joy would come from a careless hand inching closer and closer… How could I long for such a sin? If Judah ever knew…
Everyone in town swore Judah and I were perfectly matched. Even my father, hand on the Bible, insisted our union was designed by God himself. I believed it too I think. When Judah took my hand at his father’s table, promising me love and devotion. But if our union is truly so divinely favored, why am I now thinking about the eyes of another?
With love,
Ivy Masterson
--
Spring sunshine broke through the clouds the day the carnival came into town. The smell of fresh kettle corn and the shrill glee of eager children floated around Ivy Masterson as she and Isaac O Brian strolled through all the excitement. Ivy’s presence at such an event without her husband caught no ire from those around her. Only intrigue as they imagined what a life must be like with such a well-traveled and dutiful husband. In a town where most wives rarely went more than a moment without their other halves by their side, Ivy Masterson led a curious life indeed, whispered about only outside of her presence. As it were, a neighbor passing by the Masterson Ranch this morning, conveniently took his time walking the length of the property. Long enough to watch Judah Masterson mount his horse and Ivy stare after him on the porch. Though far, the neighbor could not make out Ivy’s signature warmth coloring her face and his mind spun with curiosity ever since. However, he kept such things to himself as he passed her and Isaac stopping to help a few kids pick out bags of kettle corn. After all, neither Pastor Donovan nor Abraham Masterson were men one wanted to be out of favor with.
“I reckon they are just as excited about the sunny weather as the attractions, it was such a rough winter,” Ivy smiled as she watched the group of children speed away from them.
“Indeed, the sun’s a welcome sight. It looks like we’ll have a good grow season this year,” Isaac replied, peering up at the sky as the pair continued their walk.
“Is that all you think about, Isaac?”
“No, I think about plenty of things, but how can I help it with you bringing up the weather,”
“I suppose you are right,”
“What would you like me to talk about then? The smallest horse in the world,” Isaac motioned over to a booth boasting to hold a horse smaller than anyone had ever seen inside, “Or how about the world’s strongest man, hmm? How do you figure he earned that title? Sounds like a painful endeavor, if you ask me,”
“Oh goodness,” Ivy laughed.
“Well, I don’t hear you coming up with any better ideas. Surely we ain’t run out of topics of conversation after all these years of friendship,”
“Tell me about your garden, Isaac. What are you planting?”
“I thought you were bored of hearing me talk about growing and farming and seasons,”
“No, never. I like hearing about your garden, promise,” Ivy insisted.
“Alright then, I’m trying to decide on something new to plant this year actually. Any suggestions?”
“Some kind of flower… We could place them around the church later in the spring.”
“Ivy wants flowers…” Isaac stroked his chin before nodding, “I think I have some ideas already,”
“You always do”
A girlish giggle up ahead caught Ivy and Isaac’s attention and Ivy recognized the daughter of Sherrif Sawyer tucked behind a bush with the Anderson’s boy. The two hideaways did their best to check that the coast was clear, heads peering left to right, before he pressed his lips awkwardly against hers in a flash.
“Mr. Sawyer’ll skin that boy alive, they’re both not a day over 13,” Ivy said, shaking her head with a laugh as they watched the two dash back out into the carnival fray.
“Oh let them be,” Isaac chuckled, “After all, you and I were kids not too long ago. I think I recall a game of truth or dare that ended similarly for us at their age.”
A touch of redness grew on Ivy’s cheek, indetectable to the men and women nodding their heads politely to the pair as they walked on but shining a dusty rose color in Isaac’s eyes, “I think that may have been the most rebellious thing we ever did together!” Ivy remarked aloud, “Oh, right behind the church at that too! I prayed extra hard that night”
“So did I,” Isaac laughed, eyes searching the skies above for a moment, as if the memory would float back down to him from the clouds, “I wager I was the only boy who’d ever kissed a girl before. The way they all kept hounding me for details once you were out of earshot,”
“What did you tell them?”
“Nothing, of course. That wouldn’t have been right by you. Besides,” he paused a moment as both of their feet slowed to a stop, “I liked keeping that memory between you, me and God. Many of my best memories are,”
A subtle breeze slipped a blond hair out of place on Ivy’s head and Isaac’s hands gripped tighter behind his back, resisting the urge to set it right again as she stared up at him. Ivy let the hair hang limp against her cheek, a move so out of place for her that Isaac felt one of his hands begin to rebel against his resolve. However, just as it began to inch from his back to his side, Ivy swiped the hair behind her ear again.
“I...I best be getting back to my father,” Ivy stated, turning back the way they came as Isaac shook his head, let out a small smile and joined her.
--
Dear Diary,
Have I let the devil into my home? My marriage? All it takes is a crack in the door and here he bursts in through the threshold of my mind. Worse, he’s taken the form of Isaac. My dear Isaac.
Oh how can I say such things? How can daydreams of unspeakable sins feel so sacred? When I look into his eyes, I am rooted. It’s always been that way. But when I go home to my husband and he dains to set eyes on me, I feel far from anything I’d ever consider love.
Judah must know. He can tell my thoughts stray from our home. Why else would he talk of dark things and move about this house like a ghost? If I could only stay away, let it go. But here I am, alone in my home thinking of a single kiss I had as just a girl. And I can’t seem to stop myself. I’ve planted this dangerous seed inside of me now and I fear it will sprout over us all.
With Love,
Ivy Masterson
--
The cruelest irony of them all, to Ivy Masterson, was that the afternoon she found that note tucked inside one of Judah’s books - was sunny. And she was happy. In the morning, Ivy walked around town and greeted every person she crossed, paying no mind to any semblance of trouble. When she ran into Isaac earlier, he mentioned having something to drop off for her and she bid him to come by without regard to her worries and fears. Everyone who saw Ivy noted that her husband was no doubt due back any moment and smiled upon her in understanding. Such a handsome couple, such a charming life. For a moment just prior to the scrap of paper falling out of the book to the floor, Ivy too considered what it might be like if she could live the charmed life of Ivy Masterson. She could banish the devil from her thoughts and be the wife Judah thought he had. It might be alright. Even rather agreeable. But none of those thoughts mattered once Ivy read the sweet nothings of Willow, who spoke of the love and dark magic she’d made with her husband. As Ivy read and reread those words, nothing mattered much to her at all.
“Ivy?” Isaac appeared behind the door that Ivy idly carried herself to after a knock broke her thoughts.
“Oh, Isaac,” Ivy muttered before turning to walk into the room again, “Come in, Isaac. Join me,”
“Ivy? Are you alright?” Isaac replied, following her in and setting down the crate he was carrying.
“Never better” Ivy spoke the words slowly, eyes gazing past him, before abruptly walking into the kitchen and grabbing two empty cups. Reaching into the back of a cupboard, Ivy pulled out an ornate wine bottle and began to fill the cups with wine.
“Would you like a drink, Isaac? Please do,” Ivy handed him a cup before waiting for an answer and took a swig from hers. “It’s my husband’s most prized bottle, imported all the way from France can you believe it?” Ivy finished the cup, chugging it down and pouring another, “That self-important bastard”
“Ivy, this isn’t like you, what’s wrong?”
“Everything, Isaac!” Salty tears mixed with the taste of chardonnay on her lips as she stared back to Isaac “It’s all wrong!” Grabbing the note, Ivy handed it to him to read and Isaac’s face twisted into anger and sympathy as he did so.
“He’s a witch too, you know? Him and that wicked little harlot,” Ivy continued, slumping down onto a bench in the kitchen. “I caught him, conjuring up some foul black magic in the barn one night. I-I thought he gave it up. I thought he was trying to be better. I thought it was all in my head, all our problems, but it was him. Him and that...that girl.” Isaac sat down next to Ivy, taking the cup she poured him and chugged the whole thing down.
“Well I won’t let you drink alone, Ivy vine,” he offered, feeling a couple tears of his own slide down his face. Leaning into him, Ivy began to sob and he recalled that the last time he held her this close was when her grandfather had passed on a few years ago. Every time he’d ever seen Ivy cry, Isaac would stroke her hair and pray to God, begging him to make her tears go away. He did so this time as well, silently whispering to himself, but also adding an extra prayer that God might take away the anger bubbling inside of him too.
“Oh I hate her, Isaac. I hate her and I hate him,”
“You don’t mean that” Isaac told her. He knew he had to say it, but as the words left him even he could not believe them.
“No, I do! They are awful and rotten and I wish I’d never…” Ivy paused and buried her head further into him, the way she used to when they were kids and such things as love had not occurred to them, “You’re the only good thing in my life anymore, Isaac”
Ivy looked up to Isaac who opened his mouth as if to speak, before letting out a sigh and offering her a kind smile instead. At that moment, Ivy noted the crate behind Isaac.
“What’s that?” Ivy motioned to the box.
“Oh its…” Isaac began to say as he brought the box in between them and uncovered the contents to reveal a vibrant blush colored flower sprouting from a clay pot.
“A lily” Ivy finished for him. Ivy looked down at the blush petals through blurry eyes then back to Isaac as she remembered the last time the O’Brians had grown liles. Isaac’s father had planted them for his mother as a surprise. Lilies are the flower of love you know kids, his father had said as the pair of them helped him dig holes in the soil. Isaac looked at Ivy now as she stroked the petals and his heart ached.
“I couldn’t think of anyone else I’d rather give it to.” he finally managed to say.
Without a word, Ivy placed her lips on his, kissing him, and he responded in kind cupping her head in his hands. He began to inch closer, only for the box and the lily to topple over, pot cracking in half as it made contact with the floor. Ivy pulled back and turned away from Isaac abruptly, fingers touching her lips and shaking as they traced over them.
“Isaac, I need you to leave,” Ivy murmured, not turning to look at him.
“I-Ivy, I’m sorry I-” Isaac began, ignoring the broken flower pot to move to her.
“No, Isaac please, go, I can’t… You need to go.”
Isaac remained frozen, grasping at the air as if the right words would be there for him to catch. But he pulled up nothing and though her back was still turned, he could hear Ivy start to cry.
“Ivy vine, I”
“Leave! Isaac!” she barked, finally turning around with a fierceness on her face that even Isaac had never seen before. “Go! Get out of my home, just… Stay away from me!”
Her words shattered his heart, but he obliged her, turning around and walking out the door as he attempted to block out the sound of her sobbing. Ivy returned to the opened bottle of wine on the table, drinking straight from it as she let pain and anger swell inside of her. The note laid open on the table next to her and with every glance at it she took another swig. She felt so unsure of where she would settle once she stopped swimming in it all. Everything swelled in her mind now. The kiss tarnished by sin, the hate burdened with shame. She paced about and drank it all in until not one but two bottles of wine were gone.
It wasn’t until she heard the faint sounds of hooves approaching from outside that she finally snapped her head up. As she made out the shape of her husband returning home, she dropped the empty bottle in her hand and walked to the door, certain now of one thing: that the emotion she had settled on was rage. Only rage.
--
Dear Diary,
Will God forgive me for what I’ve done? It had to be so. Had to be. The devil appeared before my husband in the form of a lustful creature...but does that justify the magic that has now blackened my soul?
Will I ever be able to look my father in the eye again and say grace at his table in earnest? Am I still me? I don’t think this to be so. The Ivy who sat in the pews as a little girl is gone. For she would have never done this. Ivy Masterson, she’s a terrifying creature, indeed. Had I know this is who she’d be, I would have never put on that ring. My wedding ring. I took it off for the spell, but I haven’t been able to bear the thought of slipping it on again. I keep staring at it inside my jewelry box, dreading the feel of it shackling me to a man incapable of upholding the vows we took. Incapable of loving me. Once I put that ring on, my fate is sealed. Ivy Masterson takes control and corrupts me down to the bones and lost is the Ivy I once thought I was. The Ivy who served God’s will. The Ivy who pitied the sinners and the damned. The Ivy who was once worthy of a love as pure as Isaac.
Of all that I have done, the regret that is most unbearable is that I could have dragged my dear Isaac into sin with me. God may never forgive my soul and I would deserve such a fate. But him. I hope God will forgive him. I’ve ruined too many lives already. Perhaps that’s all I am meant to do.
With love and regret,
Ivy Masterson
[00:48:08.810] - Katarina
Aaaah! Oh no! Ivy! Ivy, honey, what are you doing? Ivy no! Ouch! God damn. Those diary entries? Oh, they really helped to sell this, ow. Get this girl some therapy.
[00:48:27.230] - Adrienne
Yeah.
[00:48:28.510] - Katarina
Admittedly, it's not very Christian to set your husband's adulteress on fire, but still.
[00:48:36.660] - Adrienne
She was in a drunken rage.
[00:48:39.180] - Katarina
A drunken rage, and I liked that touch because I don't think I ever specified if she was like shitfaced, but I like the idea of Ivy just getting really plastered and going "I'm gonna fuck shit up."
[00:48:54.420] - Adrienne
I felt like the moment warranted it. I felt like, you know, she she needed to break frankly.
[00:49:03.210] - Katarina
Yeah, she did.
[00:49:04.260] - Adrienne
And yeah, that's how I chose to do it.
[00:49:08.010] - Katarina
I like that. I liked it. I have to say there were some pieces of your story that had very strong Washington Irving vibes in terms of how you wrote. There were, there were like some of your bigger paragraphs really reminded me of how "The Legend of Sleepy Hollow" is written, just like your cadence and the way you carried some of your words. So I really liked that. Instead of gassing you up for like 20 minutes, though, which I-- which I could easily do. I think I can probably guess, but which which scene specifically where you like, "this is the song like this is why I'm writing this."
[00:49:49.300] - Adrienne
I mean, I think it's pretty clear that, like that last scene, uh, with Ivy and Isaac and Ivy, you know, having this moment I like that was a big thing. I think that's kind of the thing that made me want to you know, that's the thing that I took from the song that made me want to write. I heard, you know, like we were talking about earlier, I heard that the final verse, the gut punch verse, which is like "and drink my husband's wine," I was like, oh, boy, gonna have fun with that. So I definitely took that. I really liked the idea too, especially since Judah is the kind of asshole that would be a bit of like a wine snob and just have this fancy ass bottle of wine. So I was like, you know, we're going to lean into that. And have Ivy be like, "this man broke my heart, ruined my life, made me question everything I thought I knew about myself. So fuck him and his fancy ass wine."
[00:50:56.460] - Katarina
Yeah. Yeah, he really did.
[00:50:59.560] - Adrienne
Yeah. That's--
[00:51:01.270] - Katarina
Judah...
[00:51:01.270] - Adrienne
That's really, that's really like the main thing. And that's kind of what I was trying to get at with my story because like the main goal for this story is that it had to be a bit of a justification as to why she does the things that she does. I don't know if I succeeded, but I-- I really wanted to, you know, take the images that I was getting from the song--
[00:51:28.130] - Katarina
Yeah
[00:51:28.500] - Adrienne
And really use them as a way to play up this kind of descent that she was going to have. So like that was, that was the landing sort of point, the like and like this is the moment where it changes. The other thing from the song that also really stood out was the chorus. Where she's like, "my pain fits in the palm of your freezing hand taking mine, but it's been promised to another." So I feel like you can tell there was a lot of, like, hand imagery.
[00:52:00.310] - Katarina
I liked that. I did pick up on that. I thought that was a really subtle influence from the song and I really enjoyed it all. All of his like (makes a funny noise)--
[00:52:09.970] - Adrienne
Yeah.
[00:52:10.690] - Katarina
I want to touch. Very, very Pride and Prejudice. I appreciated that. On a semi related note, I'm very happy that you finally got your carnival scene. I know this was something-- you wanted to write a carnival scene for Willow, and you were just overwhelmed by how...by how much you were trying to accomplish in that scope. So I'm glad that you finally got your carnival scene. Were there-- were there any things that you wanted to do with this story that you, for whatever reason, you ended up cutting and you were like, oh, I wanted to do this, but I've decided against it?
[00:52:41.140] - Adrienne
You know, it's interesting because, like, yeah, I'm, uh, I'm glad I got my carnival scene too. Like you said, when I sat down to write "Willow," it was-- I went into it with the knowledge that I was going to have to really go into it, like, really, really deeply. And, uh, if you listen to our last episode, you'll know that my story is very long because I, I went into it. I went into the whole thing. But like approaching the "Ivy" story, I was like, all right. Well, for this one, it doesn't have to be like that because as much as we love-- I do love Ivy, like her relationship with Isaac... We don't have to explore, like, that deeply, really in, in context with the scope of the story we were really telling. And also I made them childhood friends. So if I was going to go into the relationship, it would be a saga, would be a novel.
[00:53:37.300] - Katarina
That would be its own episodic--
[00:53:40.330] - Adrienne
Yeah.
[00:53:40.900] - Katarina
--Podcast short story compilation. And we don't have time for that because we've already picked the more interesting couple to focus on.
[00:53:49.760] - Adrienne
So I chose, you know, I chose to keep my scope pretty small, which in that respect meant that for the most part, once I sat down and decided, "all right, this is the scope of it," I was able to fit everything I wanted to do scene wise--
[00:54:07.190] - Katarina
Good.
[00:54:07.580] - Adrienne
--In. I didn't really have to cut anything. And I decided early on, too, I think we talked about this in our initial planning, that I wanted to do like this kind of-- or I wanted to do diary entries like I wanted it to be like this kind of diary-esque kind of thing. Initially I was thinking, I guess this is one thing that did kind of shift as it progressed is, one thing initially I was thinking is that I do the whole thing as a, as diary entries. Just like a bunch of them. But then I decided I didn't want to do that. A lot of the reason being because it was very hard for me to write as Ivy, because I feel like she's so different from who I am, not to say that I think I am like Willow...
[00:54:58.580] - Katarina
I was... I was going to say! So you-- listen. Do I think that you and Willow share more characteristics than Ivy? Sure. Like you, you both have that fiery independent spirit. Do I think you'd have an affair with a married man who was also a dark magician?
[00:55:13.570] - Both
No!
[00:55:15.070] - Adrienne
No!
[00:55:15.980] - Katarina
No!
[00:55:15.980] - Adrienne
Absolutely not.
[00:55:17.870] - Katarina
Admittedly... I'm not saying I wouldn't, but. Still.
[00:55:26.040] - Adrienne
Yeah, no, but like in terms of primarily like the relationship between Ivy and Isaac, they're sweet, they're tender. They're childhood friends. She's the pastor's daughter, he's the humble farmer. They're a tender relationship. And this might be, like, getting too deep into my life, but that's not who I am--
[00:55:48.900] - Katarina
No
[00:55:49.200] - Adrienne
--as a person. When I like-- I'm kind of like a witty, dry, snappy, sarcastic person when I talk to friends and stuff. So, like, if I'm flirting or showing interest in someone, I'm not going to be sweet and demure. I'm going to be more like Willow and kind of a bit more of a... Like, that-- that dynamic between two love interests makes more sense to me as a person because it's more of like my style, whereas Ivy and Isaac have this sort of really reserved, quiet, kind love. And Ivy is this... Kind of pushing away from this. And she's this sort of pious, God fearing woman. And that's not really...
[00:56:38.610] - Katarina
Yeah, you're not like "I've got to be a good little girl and I can't I can't make any mistakes."
[00:56:46.140] - Adrienne
Yeah.
[00:56:46.590] - Katarina
Although there is that stereotype of the preacher's daughter being rowdy, but that's more of a modern invention. Back in the day? Of course not.
[00:56:55.110] - Adrienne
I had to really, like, try and find ways to, like, connect to her. But anyway, because of that kind of challenge, once I started writing, I was like, alright, this can't all be diary entries.
[00:57:09.120] - Katarina
Yeah.
[00:57:09.930] - Adrienne
I just don't know if I can really keep my headspace in that mode for an effective story.
[00:57:18.150] - Katarina
It is a lot. It is a lot.
[00:57:20.700] - Adrienne
It's a lot. So I went for doing a mix of like diary and actual scenes as they were happening. And initially I was going to write those scenes in the first person, but that was--
[00:57:34.590] - Katarina
OK.
[00:57:34.950] - Adrienne
--A thing I ended up changing too. Kind of for similar reasons. Like in terms of like I don't know if I could just stay in her headspace that long, but also as I-- once I made the change, I kind of liked it better that way because I liked sort of playing up this idea of seeing her from the outside perspective as people watch looking on her life and looking at the outside and then getting her internal perspective as to what was going on inside and behind the scenes. I kind of liked having that dichotomy because I feel like it kind of, it was kind of like along the sort of similar vein of the dichotomy I was hearing in the song where there was this kind of like. There's a good, there's a bad. I liked, I like being able to juxtapose two sort of ideas.
[00:58:32.130] - Katarina
Inside of you there are two Ivy's. (Laughs) Well, I really, really liked all of the narrative choices that you made. That said, if you could go back today and change anything, would you? Or are you, like, finito?
[00:58:50.580] - Adrienne
Nah. Well, I will say I think I would rewrite this story if I had the chance in terms of like... Uh, again, I'm a perfectionist and I feel like there's a lot more I could have done with it from like a writer's standpoint.
[00:59:09.540] - Katarina
OK.
[00:59:10.650] - Adrienne
So there is that. Um, and this was a hard story. Like, admittedly. It wasn't as hard as Willow, for me...
[00:59:22.230] - Katarina
Yeah, Willow threw you for a loop.
[00:59:23.010] - Adrienne
Well, it was hard for different reasons. Willow was hard, kind of more from like a timing element of like, there's so much and I just don't know how I'm going to get it all done in a way that's like, good, well paced and does what I wanted to do. Ivy was hard because I was just like I... There's just so much about this character that's so different from me, and I was having to really just like figure out how to go on this journey that she goes on, you know, because it's not something that I've ever experienced. Like...
[00:59:58.830] - Katarina
Thank God!
[00:59:59.030] - Adrienne
Yeah, I've never been cheated on... knowingly. I've never been cheated on. I've never cheated on someone. I've never had that experience. So I had to get really, really into the things that I could latch on to and kind of step back. And that's where the song kind of really helped because I was able to kind of listen to the song and think about the emotions that the song was eliciting out of me and then go, OK, how are those emotions showing up in Ivy the character? And then how can I relate to those struggles that she's having from that respect? And like, no, I can't relate to my husband being a witch and finding him in the barn conjuring a demon. I can't.
[01:00:48.540] - Katarina
The most absurd bullshit.
[01:00:51.170] - Adrienne
Like, I can't. Never had that experience. But like what I can grab on to, you know, is like being presented with information that I just didn't realize about someone. Or like that experience of thinking you knew something was happening a certain way and finding out it's completely different. You can relate to those sort of core feelings. And I think that's what the song Ivy does so well is that, you know, it takes an experience that, to many people, people would be like, "oh, you're a cheater. That's terrible." But it humanizes it so well to a point where, you know, you really feel it. You're on that journey with this character in the song. It really breaks down the kind of judgmental aspect that might come in when you think about the idea of like an affair.
[01:01:46.160] - Katarina
Well, certainly in the context of what we've done with our affairs. I feel like Isaac and Ivy, they probably deserved each other.
[01:01:57.740] - Adrienne
They did!
[01:02:00.070] - Katarina
Man, why didn't she--why didn't she just marry Isaac? I know why.
[01:02:03.820] - Adrienne
Yeah. I guess that's another thing I kind of wish I did better, because I wish I kind of delved a little more into, like, why Ivy married Judah instead of Isaac, because I think I hinted at it a little bit, you know, like "everybody thought me and Judah were perfect together. And this is what our parents wanted."
[01:02:23.380] - Katarina
It's what -- that's and that's the thing. Like, I think Judah bitches about it a lot more than Ivy, because like Ivy, with her with her good girl personality would be trying to make the best of it and be like, "yes, this is what I want. This is what I'm supposed to want." And then it ends up not being what she wants for multiple reasons, some of them that are not her fault. So.
[01:02:45.480] - Adrienne
Yeah.
[01:02:46.230] - Katarina
I think, I think on the whole, I think you did a pretty good job eliciting the feelings of the song in conjunction with what we have been trying to do, which was the key point of this. So.
[01:02:59.450] - Adrienne
Yes, I hope it was good. I hope you enjoyed it.
[01:03:03.230] - Katarina
I did. I thought the tender moments were really sweet. And again, I was just like, "oh, Ivy." I will say I wish I had asked a question of you. Before--
[01:03:15.680] - Adrienne
Oh.
[01:03:16.140] - Katarina
--I finished my story.
[01:03:18.170] - Adrienne
What question?
[01:03:21.230] - Katarina
I wish I had clarified as to whether or not Isaac knew about the circumstances surrounding Ivy being unhappy with him. Because in my story, Isaac does not know that Judah is a witch.
[01:03:37.640] - Adrienne
Oh, I thought I told you.
[01:03:40.090] - Katarina
If you did, I lost it. Because I was trying to double check that the other day and I was like, "it's not here, I'm gonna go with it." So that's goof number one for me.
[01:03:52.390] - Adrienne
I mean, how big, like...
[01:03:55.810] - Katarina
How big a deal is it? I feel like I.... You're going to have to tell me.
[01:04:00.740] - Adrienne
Oh. We probably should have had a quick meeting before.
[01:04:04.690] - Katarina
We should have. But we didn't. And you know what? That's OK.
[01:04:09.970] - Adrienne
I mean, I guess we could play it off as like he forgot.
[01:04:14.530] - Katarina
Or he didn't believe. Like I feel like he'd believe the affair. I feel like the witchy stuff, he'd be like, "what the fuck is this?"
[01:04:21.370] - Adrienne
Yeah, because it is kind of like a throwaway comment that she makes.
[01:04:24.940] - Katarina
Yeah.
[01:04:25.750] - Adrienne
At the end...So you're probably fine.
[01:04:28.140] - Katarina
He could, he could be like "the woman was hysterical."
[01:04:30.820] - Adrienne
Yeah. He was like "she was crazy! She was out of her mind with anger!"
[01:04:35.240] - Katarina
"She was hysterical!"
[01:04:37.210] - Adrienne
"She was hysterical."
[01:04:38.980] - Katarina
Yeah. We play it off that way. Otherwise it's not going to make much sense. But.
[01:04:44.770] - Adrienne
All right. Anyway, do you have any final thoughts or questions in this portion of the discussion, uh, before we get into yours? Because I'm excited to see...
[01:04:59.170] - Katarina
Questions? No, but thoughts? Yes. I think, I think, again, you really did a really masterful job of of setting the scene and things like that. Like, I really was really impressed with your cadence and, and how you were painting the picture, how the town was looking at them and how it was like society looking at her. And how it's-- it's almost her opinion, but it's not. And juxtaposing it with her opinion, even though it's like they're supposed to match. So why are they missing each other? I really enjoyed your direction with that. The diary entries, for the third time, just hurt my soul...God, Ivy, you stupid bitch.
[01:05:44.330] - Adrienne
Hey!
[01:05:44.330] - Katarina
"I took off my wedding ring and now I'm going to put it back on and fucking die." You should've just let him go, Ivy! It would have been free of you.
[01:05:55.930] - Adrienne
Well, that's the thing. I feel like-- I feel like and I'll say this quickly, because I do really want to get into your story, but I feel like the kind of theme of this arc that we've created is poor life choices.
[01:06:15.360] - Katarina
Mistakes were made.
[01:06:16.920] - Adrienne
By everyone!
[01:06:18.550] - Katarina
By everyone.
[01:06:18.960] - Adrienne
Every single character that we've created.
[01:06:21.390] - Katarina
I can't-- I can't fault her for wanting to make her marriage work, like especially being a woman in that time period, especially if she had eventually gone off with Isaac and gotten married. With the town looking at them like that after they were all like, "oh, Isaac, he's not a threat to their marriage!" Could you imagine how people would talk? God, they'd never hear the end of it. So I can't fault her for wanting to make things work. In fact, I respect her for it. I respect you for getting mad and getting even. Even though it was the wrong choice, morally. I respect her for going a little apeshit. Like she's-- in this story, she's that meme. You know, "aren't you tired of being nice? Don't you just wanna go apeshit?" Like you were saying about relatability? I feel like that's a very relatable thing for, I'm sure, for many people. Like you're trying so hard to make things work, whether or not society's opinion of you or your relationships with people or just your life in general and then something is the final straw that breaks the camel's back. And you're just like, "that's it! I've had enough!" But, but, yes. My-- my thoughts about your story are are thusly wrapped up. I enjoyed it very much. I liked it. Made me feel things.
[01:07:46.720] - Adrienne
I'm glad you liked it. I'm glad it made you feel things. But now I gotta know... What happens in your story? 'Cause I, you know, I was writing my whole thing, I was setting up the relationship and I was setting up Ivy and Isaac and what-- all that's happened. And so now we have this knowledge of just how badly Judah's fucking choices have fucked things up.
[01:08:18.910] - Katarina
Yeah.
[01:08:20.260] - Adrienne
So now--
[01:08:20.860] - Katarina
My baby boy.
[01:08:22.150] - Adrienne
Now we get to hear your story. Which... Listeners? I mean, I feel like you can kind of set it up. 'Cause it's time.
[01:08:29.530] - Katarina
OK. So just so because we both obviously had to write an Ivy story, but I already painted the events of this, kind of, from-- from Judah's perspective already. So the question would be we don't need two stories from Ivy's point of view. And I didn't feel like getting into the headspace of Isaac. So what we decided was that Judah's consequences were going to come back to haunt him 10 years after the events of Willow, about a year after the events of Dust Devils, let's say so it's been a solid 10, 11 years since he burned his house down. "He." It was Ivy, but still. Is when my story takes place. And we're going to find out about the aftermath of. Everything. If we're curious about the timeline. So my story is called, "You Can See God Where The Good Things Grow."
[01:09:29.520] - Adrienne
Oh, that sounds cute. And sad.
[01:09:37.450] - Story 2
It began with the dreams, but then again, things always began with dreams when it came to Judah.
The dream was a nightmare, also a common trend in his life. He was walking in the remnants of the charred remains of his old life, searching in the darkness for some…thing, some object of desire, some secret treasure. He didn’t know what he was searching for, but he was certain that whatever it was, it rested here, among the ruins. Just as the moonlight shone upon a small corner of what was left of the foundations of his father’s house, great and terrible vines swarmed up, looping around his arms, his legs, and dragged him into the earth. He woke choking on the air, though only moments before it had been dirt.
Judah did not dream often, and when he did, it meant something. He’d come to realize this after a particularly bad magical experiment, in which he’d attempted to contact someone very dear to him through dreams, thinking that the souls of the living and the dead were only separated by conscious thought. He had failed miserably; all he had received for his troubles was the ability to see her once more, though her terrible, empty eyes, her hair licked with flames, and the deathly claws that had once been such lovely, tender hands, should have stayed in his nightmares. Judah wondered, sometimes, if he should not have tried so hard to undo the curse that had been inflicted on them both so long ago. He sometimes thought he would have been better off never seeing Willow again.
If a man had loved anyone the way Judah had loved Willow, he sometimes thought to himself, then that love should have been able to conquer anything. And that, in his mind, was the answer to a question he’d long since given up asking. Love had no power. At least not any real power. The books were wrong, the prophets were wrong, the mages and scholars who had come before him were wrong…and he was doomed.
But this dream intrigued him. He had not thought of the home he’d left behind him all those years ago since the day he walked out from the ashes and out into the wilderness. Now the thought of coming home burned in him like a furnace, and it was all he could do to keep from saddling up and riding east, to Colorado, to a graveyard. But he locked eyes with the phantom of his lover, who lingered outside the salt circle ‘round his campfire, pacing like a tiger, and he sighed. It could wait, he decided. It could wait until daylight.
--
He had not expected a grand welcome party upon reaching the town of his birth, certainly. Judah had lived on a cattle ranch, he only rode into town on days his father needed him to do so…until the end, when all he did was ride to town for her. He had not made himself welcome in most places here; not unwelcome, per se, but he was nondescript and quiet by nature. He had no delusions of being memorable. But now, as he rode in all solemn and quiet, it reminded him of riding a horse in a cemetery. The post office looked boarded up, as if it had not been operational in quite some time. The barber pole was weathered completely white, and now collected rust. Upon seeing the general store, Judah felt a sharp pain in his chest, as he thought of his Willow and what she would say to seeing it boarded up, the nails rusted and falling, and he did his best to push the implications from his mind. Only the local saloon showed any sign of life, and even then, it was holding on in spite of itself. The shutters hung precariously from the windows, and the roof looked like it was missing more boards than could ever hope to be repaired. What the hell had happened to this place? He thought. He kept riding, avoiding the eyes of the old timers, future corpses in the making, who stared at him with a hostility he had not felt in a decade. He kept riding, out past the last house, in the direction of what was once his home.
When he reached it, he was surprised by how low the sun sat in the sky. He hadn’t expected to take so long getting here, but he knew in his heart he had not really wanted to come. Even looking at the charred ruined bones of the place sent ice into his veins. He had stopped hearing the screams of his wife and father long ago, but now it almost seemed to him like they came rushing back. He would have pondered more on this guilt had he not spotted a slight figure, sifting through the dirt. He called out, and the figure, startled, shot upright. Judah spurred his horse to a trot, but relaxed as he and the figure recognized the other. He hopped off his horse and walked to the man, not smiling, but not unhappy to see someone living.
“Isaac,” he said, as friendly as he could muster. “Been a long time.”
“Judah…Masterson?” the mousy-haired, slender man gazed at him in awe. “We all thought…that is…you never were seen again after the fire.”
“I wanted it that way, Isaac. Don’t fault yourself.”
“Why didn’t you…?” Isaac began, then shook his head. “No. It isn’t really my place. I can only imagine the pain something like this must have caused you. No wonder you simply left it all behind. I don’t know what I would have done if I’d…well, certainly not with your father. And a woman such as Ivy.”
The constriction in his chest curled up tight, a familiar feeling. Judah thought he was long free of this guilt, of this part of his story. He looked down at the ground and saw, with amazement, that Isaac had not stooped to pick something up at all, but to lay something down. It was a lily: brilliant and white in the midst of a ground that still, after all these years, was unnaturally blackened and charred. Judah stared at it, unable to take his eyes away. Isaac followed his glance and turned bright red.
“I…I hope you don’t mind, Judah. I just come by every once in a while, to pay my respects to you and your family…though I expect you won’t be included in my prayers to purgatory now, will you? There were others, but since the town’s been drying up, I’m one of the few that tries to keep the dead—”
“Beets,” Judah said. He looked up and stared at Isaac’s face, still red, sweating.
“Excuse me?”
“Your family farm, you grew beets, didn’t you?”
“Well. Sometimes, sir, I did.”
This answer satisfied Judah enough, and he continued on into what once was the foundation of his home. He looked around, searching for the corner of the house from his dreams. Something was left here that he was meant to find. Isaac followed, awkwardly hanging around him.
“Lately, nobody seems to do much growing of any kind ‘round these parts.”
“Is that so?” Judah asked, only half interested.
“Not since the mudslide, five or six years back. Since then, the land’s been no good to any of us. Almost like it’s been poisoned. Nothing good grows here anymore.”
“This place’s been poisoned long before any mudslide, Isaac,” Judah said, more to himself than anyone.
“Then you have all that talk,” Isaac stumbled over a crumbling bit of stone, following Judah through the maze of his old house, “of the Green Lady.”
Judah turned and looked at Isaac, suddenly intrigued. “Green Lady?”
“They say she’s a ghost, if you believe in that kind of talk. Say she’s a woman wronged. Say she won’t let things take root here any longer. I say that’s a load of nonsense, myself. Any God-fearing man—”
At this, Judah once more tuned Isaac out and continued his search. He’d been run out of enough towns thanks to ‘God-fearing’ men and women who, after he’d saved their lives from monsters and demons of all sorts, decided he was not fit to stay in their presence a moment longer than was necessary. Whether or not his travels brought him close to redemption, getting paid for his services kept him alive, and an unpaid wandering exorcist was a hungry and sloppy one. Isaac, undeterred by Judah’s withered gaze, prattled on about vegetables and seasonal crops and things Judah had not concerned himself with even at the best of his ranching career. He turned to Isaac, his eyes kind but impatient, and told him, “I’m grateful for the kindness you’ve been paying to my family all these years, Isaac. I truly am. But I need to—that is, I would like a moment. If you don’t mind.”
“Oh! Not at all,” Isaac said, stepping away, but not leaving.
“Is there something you’d like to…to say to them as well?” Judah tried to play the part of grieving widower, but he was never good at acting and he hadn’t been a good husband or son when either party still walked the earth. He was not about to start now.
Isaac stared at the ground and shook his head. “I already said what I was going to,” he said, smiling softly but with a pain in his voice that struck Judah as odd. He had not been especially close to Isaac. His father had dealings with Isaac’s father, every so often, but they had never been friends. Judah could not say when the last time he had seen Isaac had been. The cold and honest truth was that Judah did not know this man.
He turned to tell Isaac that it was probably best for him to leave this place entirely, when he spotted something that caught the light. He walked over, fighting the urge to run from this spot of land that he recognized from his dreams, and moved the debris until he unearthed the thing he sought; it was a book, covered scorched and pages singed, but a book, nonetheless. Somehow it had survived the blaze, covered by fallen beams, and upon opening it, Judah realized it was intact. He didn’t recognize the notebook, nor the handwriting it contained, but he flipped through it gingerly. He was meant to find this, he thought to himself. He was meant to come here for this.
“Is that…is that something of hers?” Isaac asked, and he came towards Judah almost without seeing him. “That lock…awfully feminine in its look.”
“It couldn’t have been Ivy’s,” Judah said. “My wife could not read, let alone write.”
The look that spread across Isaac’s face was somewhere between disbelief, incredulity, and irritation. “Ivy could read, certainly.” Judah opened his mouth to speak, but Isaac added, “she was the daughter of a preacher. Her daddy made damn sure she could read and write, if only so she could read the Good Book.”
“My wife was—she—Ivy never, in the entirety of our time together, showed any interest in it. How do you--?”
“I knew her as a young girl,” Isaac said, his tone softened by a memory Judah was not privy to. “We grew up together. She was a bright young thing, Mr. Masterson, certainly brighter than me. I’ll…” He sighed, stared at the sun, and shifted from foot to foot. “It’s getting on in the day, ain’t it? I told myself I’d be back to the farm by 3, and it’s closer to 4 now. I’ll leave you to your mourning,” he said, and with that took off down the road.
Judah stared off after him, and then down at the book in his hands. The leather was long warped out of shape, and he could not tell what the original color had been. White, he thought. It had to have been. Pure and virginal and God-fearing, as Ivy had been. He brushed it and sat down in the dirt, leaning against what remained of a wall that could have been his bedroom. So, this was Ivy’s, he thought, as he opened the book and began to read.
By the time he had finished, the sun had sunk lower in the sky, along with his heart. He shut the book and stared off into the middle distance, not seeing a thing, and he laughed. It was a short, cold burst of energy he could not control, but it seemed to fit the surroundings. I didn’t know her at all, he thought to himself. He wondered if he had simply talked to her, perhaps helped her find her way to the man she really loved—but no. His leaving would have given her that chance, and she hadn’t taken it. He had his answer, after all these years, why Ivy’s influence on his magic had created the fire that killed both Willow and herself: the purifying flames of righteousness that Ivy had so longed for, had punished them all.
He was lost in thought, and so he did not notice the vines creeping out of the earth, slowly wrapping around his boots, his left arm as it hung just above the dirt, churning the ashes and sand beneath him. he did not notice until they constricted, tightly, and tugged him down. He cried out as he sank a good two inches into the mud, and quickly spoke an old incantation he’d read long ago to banish the flora into the earth. He sprung up, and thought he heard the weeds give a sort of cry. It couldn’t be her, he told himself. She’s long dead—
The earth shook as a hold appeared in the center of his house. Judah took that as his cue to bolt, just barely missing the ever-expanding radius of what was now a large sinkhole. He jumped onto his horse and rode it off in Isaac’s direction, only stopping when the shaking of the earth did. When he turned around, he thought he could see the outline of a woman in a green dress, hovering over the sinkhole, unmoving. She shrieked, and cracks spread out like spider webs in the earth. Judah did not look back a second time.
--
Getting Isaac to let him into his home proved to be a more difficult task than Judah first anticipated. If he analyzed the situation in his mind, played it over again to see what he could have done differently, Judah decided he would not have opened with his knowledge of Ivy’s affair. For that, Judah received a swift punch to the mouth, and as he doubled over in pain, Isaac shouted that Ivy had been a good woman, a faithful wife, and had the goodness to set Isaac straight when he’d kissed her. Judah’s protests did no good: Isaac would not hear a word against the woman.
When Judah finally stood, massaging his cheek, he spoke slowly and sternly. “I wasn’t married to the woman for even a year before I was unfaithful to her. I didn’t know her. I didn’t want to know her. But she deserved better than me.”
“How could you—”
“I never loved her, Isaac. I was told to marry her by my father, and I did. I was told to be a good husband and for a time I tried. And then I fell in love, really in love, with somebody else…I tried to do the honorable thing and leave—”
“The honorable thing would have been to be faithful to Ivy,” Isaac growled, and looked as though he was ready to punch him again.
“You’re right. You’re right, Isaac, but I wasn’t. And believe me when I tell you that I live with the consequences of that every day.”
Isaac was quiet for a moment, then softly asked, “did you kill her?”
Judah sighed. “No…not exactly. But I might as well have, for all the pain I caused her. I gave her the means to…well, there isn’t much point going into it now. I came here to ask you for your help.”
Isaac was perplexed. “What could I…”
“This Green Lady of yours,” Judah said. “It’s Ivy.”
“Go to Hell—”
“I’m serious!” Judah grabbed Isaac by the arm as he turned to leave. “This is what I do, Isaac. I fight things like this.”
“You’re a con man, more like,” Isaac said, “You know—” he began, but he didn’t get the chance to finish before Judah conjured a ball of fire in his right hand, right out of thin air. Isaac fell to the ground and scrambled away in fear, but Judah grabbed him by the shoulder and pulled him upright, and let the fire go out.
“You’re working for the devil,” Isaac began, but Judah shook his head.
“No, not doing that.”
“You’re certainly not a holy man,” Isaac spat. “This isn’t the work of the Lord.”
“I hope to one day become better acquainted with him,” Judah sighed. “But this is simply knowledge, Isaac. This isn’t a work of good or evil. It just is. And I choose,” he said, brushing the dirt off of Isaac’s jacket, “to use it to help the people I come across who don’t have the knowledge to deal with things like Green Ladies or things that go bump in the night…this is all I want to do, Isaac. I want to put things right. The land here can’t heal until she’s put to rest. You people don’t deserve to suffer because of…because of our pain.”
Isaac said nothing for a moment, then nodded. “If it will help…if it’ll help Ivy rest…will it help her?”
“I’ve got to try,” Judah said.
“Then I’ll help you,” Isaac said.
--
Isaac had questioned the giant salt circle around the perimeter of the house, or what had once been the house, at first, but Judah’s insistence had persuaded him.
“You’ll thank me,” Judah said, “when we aren’t interrupted.”
“By what?”
“The consequences of my past,” Judah said, and left it at that. “the sun is setting. I need you to call out to her.”
“What?”
“I need her to come out, like she did earlier.”
“But she attacked you…and did…this,” he said, gesturing to the hole where the home had once been.
“I can’t exorcise her until she interacts with me,” Judah said. “Call her.”
“I’ve tried before,” Isaac said, softly. “I speak to her every day. If she really is the Green Lady, then she won’t come for me.”
It was rage, then, Judah thought. “I’ll do it.” It was meant to be me, he thought, as he readied himself with his charms, and his incantations, and his holy water. It was meant to be me because this is my fault. He closed his eyes and spoke words aloud, under his breath, until they grew louder and louder, as the wind whipped about him, as he felt the presence of Willow nearing. That was the last thing he needed, two vengeful elemental spirits on his tail. He did not enjoy provoking spirits into manifesting; it seldom ended well for any of the parties involved. The last time he’d done it, he nearly ended up impaled after being tossed out of a window by a particularly spiteful poltergeist in San Francisco. But with some spirits, the only way to get them to interact on the physical plane was an act of provocation, and Judah knew now how best to provoke his wife.
“Alright Ivy,” he said. “It’s time to end this. Your little tantrums have harmed a great many people. They’ve dried up this land and they’ve killed off a town, do you hear me? You need to stop this foolishness. It’s time to let it go—”
The woman in the green dress he’d glimpsed from afar hovered in front of him in terrifying clarity. A tangled, angry mess of vines ran along her arms, erupting from her veins and looping down her forearms. They grew from her chest and down her waist, her hands, her face. Her eyes were dark, but not hungry like Willow’s. He knew, then, that she recognized him, and to his surprise her expression held no hatred, her eyes did not burn him as they gazed into him; they weren’t even angry. She was in agony, a hell of her own design, tied permanently to a land she had never loved. He pitied her, then. He pitied himself.
Her face contorted, and she screamed, flung him back to the border of the salt circle, and the earth began to move. He reached for something, anything, but the vines burst out of the ground and held him fast. The charm he’d used earlier no longer worked, as often as he shouted: new vines grew faster than the ones he destroyed. He started to shout the words, but Ivy, or whatever rage and pain was left of her, was impervious to him. Why isn’t this working, he thought. It should be working! I should be—
And then it hit him. He was never supposed to be the one to save her.
The vines tightened across his chest as he shouted, as loudly as he could muster, “Isaac! She needs to hear it from you!”
“Hear what?! Aren’t you the exorcist?!” Isaac looked like a calf about to bolt. He couldn’t see Ivy anymore in the phantasm that lingered before him, only the creature she’d created from herself.
“She never loved me, Isaac, it was you! It was always about you and her! She needs absolution! She can’t—” but Judah’s cries were cut off as the vines wrapped around his mouth, and he panicked as he felt them stretch into his open mouth. Isaac stared at them in horror as Ivy slowly hovered towards Judah, who struggled as fiercely as he could.
“Ivy!” Isaac shouted, his voice cracking.
Ivy stopped. She turned, stared at him, and vines slowly crept up around Isaac’s feet, up his legs. Isaac tried not to look down. “Ivy, please. You don’t have to do this.”
Her mouth hung open in a wordless moan, and slowly she turned back to Judah.
“Ivy, you have to forgive yourself. You have to let it go.” Isaac’s voice was strong now, all trace of fear gone. Ivy didn’t move, but something in her eyes stirred. Judah could not speak, could move nothing but his eyes, which darted back and forth between them. Isaac stood straighter, and in that moment, Judah could see no trace of the mousy little man he’d remembered from his youth.
“Ivy I know how you feel…I know how your shame eats you up inside. I know because I felt that way. I felt like a barren, empty place. After you died, that’s what I was: nothing good could grow in my heart. Not after you. You were the last good thing.”
Ivy turned away from Judah again and slowly, very slowly, let her feet touch the earth. She took slow, wobbly steps toward Isaac, the steps of a sleepwalker. Isaac didn’t look away and didn’t seem to notice the vines loosening from his legs. Judah, still held fast, could do nothing but watch. Keep going, he thought.
“Is this really how you see yourself?” Isaac asked. “Because of what we did? Because we shared something good once, because we loved? Ivy, you took root in me. You’re the only thing that’s lived in my heart these last ten years. How can you be rotten if you’ve brought me joy? If the thought of seeing you once more is what brings me peace? Oh Ivy, if it was really wrong, it never would have flowered. I don’t see this monster you think you are…all I can see is you.”
The vines slowly loosened from Judah’s mouth and chest to a point where he was able to free himself. He stood and stared as Ivy’s vines fell from her, one by one. There she was, as young and as beautiful as the last day he had seen her. Her stare was her own, her eyes were her own. In her face was the light of a love, of divinity, that Judah had never seen before. Her hair was tidy now, and her smile was sad. She had never smiled for him, Judah realized.
Isaac reached out a hand to Ivy’s face, and she leaned into it. Judah wondered if she could feel it.
“I’m so tired, Isaac,” she sighed. “I’m so tired.”
“Then rest,” he said tenderly.
She smiled, then turned, and locked eyes with Judah. She did not speak a word to him, but her eyes seemed, to Judah, to say I’m sorry.
“I’m the one who should be saying that, Ivy.” Judah said softly. “for so many things.”
She gave him one last sad smile before she turned to Isaac once more and whispered something in his ear. Then, with one last sigh, Ivy faded into the night air. A great rumble in the earth followed, and the plot of land was whole once more, but bare, untouched by human hands or structure. In the center of the plot, a single, white lily grew. Isaac smiled.
“You can see God where the good things grow,” he said.
Judah didn’t know how to reply, so he stayed silent. Then, after a moment, he asked, “Will you be alright?”
“I expect so,” Isaac said, “I expect so. I think the land will heal too, in time. I think we’ll be alright. Maybe I’ll even buy an extra plot of land…for the beets.”
“You’ll need the land for your farm, then,” Judah smiled. “She’s yours if you can keep her.”
“Judah—”
“I’m not planning on coming back here, Isaac. I did what I came to do. It’s yours.”
Isaac said nothing but stared, then approached Judah, shook his hand, and walked back in the direction of his farm. Judah smiled in the direction of the man as he vanished into the dark, and sighed. He might as well sleep here tonight, since the salt circle was formed, and he was beat. He heard something stirring behind him and turned.
Willow stood just outside the circle of salt. She was still wild and unkempt, her hair frizzy and her dress torn, but her face was a human face, her eyes were her own eyes. There was something in her face Judah had not seen in over ten years.
“Willow?” he called out, hope brimming in him.
Willow looked at him, as if seeing him for the first time…and turned away. She fled off into the night, and as she did, he saw her morph once more into the specter he’d grown used to seeing.
“Willow,” he said softly, but he knew she could not hear him. That night she did not come to him, did not stalk him by the campfire, but all-night Judah whispered her name, hoping it would catch upon the breeze and bring it to her.
[01:36:07.010] - Katarina
The end! (Laughs)
[01:36:12.360] - Adrienne
(Groans of pain.) OK, first of all, I'm a little miffed because you came up here being like "it's-- it's not my best."
[01:36:26.690] - Katarina
(Laughs) Well, it's not!
[01:36:28.340] - Adrienne
This story was so good. I just... It broke me emotionally! Multiple times.
[01:36:36.940] - Katarina
Yeah.
[01:36:37.740] - Adrienne
Oh, no. I just--okay. Oh, my God, this was so good, I enjoyed it. I'm not going to gas you up for twenty minutes, even though I totally could. This was such a good story. I was hooked. I was in it.
[01:36:58.170] - Katarina
Aw thank you.
[01:36:59.450] - Adrienne
My brain is like, "Argh! Ah!" And listeners, for those of you who are not patrons, you don't get to hear our live reactions. But if you did, I. I, I, I just I couldn't stay silent. I had a reaction to, like every single thing.
[01:37:29.650] - Katarina
Every time Isaac spoke, you were like "my baby!"
[01:37:33.220] - Adrienne
And every time Judah said anything, I was like, "why are you like this? Why?"
[01:37:39.550] - Katarina
Why?
[01:37:40.540] - Adrienne
I know we created you I, I play a role in your creation. But why are you like this?
[01:37:47.480] - Katarina
He's. He's like my problematic goblin son. Oh, my God.
[01:37:54.160] - Adrienne
And I'm still not over the fact that there is so much like, linear serendipity between our two stories in terms of like, you know. Because I have the-- a line in my, in my story at the end, where Ivy's like, "you're the only good thing in my life anymore, Isaac." And then you! Have the line where he's like "you're the only good thing," I'm like the parallels!
[01:38:24.670] - Katarina
The Parallels!
[01:38:27.280] - Adrienne
How-- we didn't even plan that!
[01:38:29.620] - Katarina
We didn't do that!
[01:38:32.230] - Adrienne
It just happened. Oh, it was so good. It was so wholesome. Their love. I'm, I'm so sad for what we did to Ivy and Isaac. They didn't deserve that, but it was beautiful. That was a beautiful moment, a beautiful sendoff. Judah got to redeem himself a little bit.
[01:38:55.090] - Katarina
Yeah.
[01:38:55.470] - Adrienne
He's still an asshole, but he's trying.
[01:39:01.480] - Katarina
That's what I like about Judah as a character is that he is an asshole, but he's really trying not to be. Anymore. In Willow, admittedly, he very much is like "I'm an asshole and I'm proud."
[01:39:14.630] - Adrienne
That's what he was supposed to do. But no. Yeah, I think you really did a great job at setting that up. This, like, he's trying to be better and he's working through like working through all of the parts of him that aren't, you know, aren't as empathetic, aren't as understanding. He's working through that. And it's all kind of coming out before him. And he's learning about himself. And his wife! Who he didn't even know could frickin read! Which, I mean.
[01:39:49.180] - Katarina
Yeah.
[01:39:49.660] - Adrienne
It's funny because, like, that kind of came out of, like a discrepancy between our stories, but I think it worked so well. And the way you wrote it into this story made, like it just added more to the, like, character development of him where he's like, "oh, wow, I didn't even really know her at all. Like, I... If I had just taken the time, if I had gotten out of my own head and my own issues and drama and just been like, hey, you know what? This is another human being with thoughts."
[01:40:23.680] - Katarina
"And not-- not an object, not an object I have been saddled with."
[01:40:28.300] - Adrienne
Yeah, like, she's a real person.
[01:40:31.900] - Katarina
Yeah. And like I think to an extent he saw her in the same vein as like he saw his father. Like another person he had to answer to, and like be responsible for, like by societal standards. So to him he's like, "I don't give a shit about this."
[01:40:47.560] - Adrienne
Yeah.
[01:40:48.610] - Katarina
Until, until he reads it, he's like, "oooh."
[01:40:52.850] - Adrienne
"Oh. I see. I've screwed everyone." No, this was so good. I-- gosh, I just have so many... Alright. I'm going to stop gassing you up because I, I really, really enjoyed the story. I thought it was incredibly well written. I think you did a great job. There are so many like, twist of the knife moments where you really just hurt my feelings. And I love that. The imagery with the lily. Like we had talked a little bit about having the lily kind of be a thing. And-- but the way you really brought it out in your story with him, like going to place it. And then the end where the lily grows at the end! Oh, so good. So, so good. Enough about me gassing you up. We had a lot of conversations leading up to this. It was interesting because, you know, in, in this particular story and kind of with Willow too, but mostly with this story. I know that like a lot of-- I know writing mine, I was very cognizant of the fact that a lot of what I was writing was going to have an impact on you and like your story.
[01:42:03.400] - Katarina
Yeah.
[01:42:03.880] - Adrienne
So, like, I guess how was the writing process for you in terms of creating, taking what you were kind of getting from, like me and what I was saying in my story and like taking also the context of the song being about this kind of like romance, like how was that writing process? Were you trying to bring all of that together into this story? Because it's like even just saying all that, it's a daunting task.
[01:42:37.960] - Katarina
So it... This one was harder for me to write for sure, like of the three sets of Judah, Willow, Ivy, Isaac stories we now have, this was the hardest one. And I don't know what it was. I just kept sitting there going, "I don't know how to make them work!" But I had, I had the... After we had our initial pre episode call where we were discussing what to do, like what the plot beats would be. We knew that, like, Judah was going to save her. But I had this idea where I was like, he shouldn't do that actually, because. Like the whole, like the whole thing about like the ghosts that we're building up is that like she's keeping herself in this place and the only one who could really tell her what she needed to hear was going to be Isaac. It wasn't going to be Judah. Because even though they were only married for like a year, they didn't really communicate. They didn't do any of that stuff. So Isaac was going to have to be a more front and center person. So in that respect, this is where the song came into play, where I was like, OK, what's it like from the guy? Like the guy's perspective, not the husband, but like the guy who's like, "I'm in love with you." And I really love the imagery in the song, like the lyrics, with with, you know, the Ivy grows and now I'm covered in you. Right? Because that's such a beautiful piece of imagery in a in a love sense, which is what I wanted him to basically be feeling in his heart. Like there were a lot of plant imageries. Thank God Isaac's a farmer, because I was like, wow, I'm just piling on all this farming metaphor. But in a, in a, in a twisted sense, that's also how I got the idea to make her as her ghost self where she's covered in this stuff. Because it's-- it's like, and I wanted to be like poking in and out of her and like being gross because she's so consumed by this drama that was between them because like that's like the big thing for her. Because like like you're at the end of your story, like how you have how her only fear is that she's damned him as well? That's going to be like the one thing carrying her through. And I was like, I want this to be an all consuming thing for her. So that's how I was able to work in like the song, because admittedly, Judah is like an absentee player in the song where Judah is almost like blissfully unaware. He's like, who the fuck wants to cheat with my wife?
[01:45:15.390] - Adrienne
Which again, asshole. But.
[01:45:17.880] - Katarina
Yes. Yeah. And it is, because he and he does it because he didn't think much of her. And when it came to like being dependent on your story and your stuff, it's so helpful that we have calls and talks where we plan things out so that I'm able to be like, OK, cool. What does Isaac do again? Like, I'm so glad you were like Isaac is a farmer, because at first I was like, what is Isaac even do? Because like.
[01:45:43.250] - Adrienne
Yeah.
[01:45:44.180] - Katarina
What, what, what, what analogies can I make with him if he's like a saloonkeeper? So I'm really glad that you chose Farmer because it is such a beautiful nurturing thing and it's so pure and connected to the Earth, which is what she was as well. And I was, I was thinking of like, OK, she's probably going to make them really sweet. So how would somebody who experienced this tenderness take the tenderness and transform it into something harsh and all consuming and angry? And how would Judah react to all of this? Because Judah is just sitting here going, "oh, I'm just here for the show. I don't know what I'm doing, guys!" So, like, it was a very daunting task, but thank God I had, like, those beats written down. And I was like, OK, how do we... How do I basically, like, twist what you gave, which was so sweet and honest and tender and how do I make it painful? And.
[01:46:48.770] - Adrienne
I mean, I definitely think you succeeded. I was in pain.
[01:46:53.600] - Katarina
Thank you.
[01:46:54.330] - Adrienne
It was a beautiful, sweet, tender pain. But I think you... You did a masterful, incredible job really bringing those two things together. And you know what you say about how you kind of brought the song into it, I think is beautiful. Because...Yeah. I mean, like the song, Judah. Judah's not...
[01:47:20.460] - Katarina
Judah's oblivious!
[01:47:21.630] - Adrienne
He's not...He doesn't... It's interesting too 'cause in that song. There's a line where she's talking about like, oh, my husband ever finds out he's going to burn this house to the ground. The grand irony is that she did it! And Judah would have been like, "whatever!"
[01:47:40.140] - Both
"Go! Be free!"
[01:47:42.450] - Adrienne
So I-- that's just funny, but like, yeah, I, I really love the way you were able to tap into the song and really, you know, focus on kind of Isaac's emotions. Because I think what's really good, too, about your story that I like is that I feel like you really get to know Isaac a lot better in your story than in mine, because I mean, you get to know Isaac in a, in context of his love for Ivy a little bit. You get to know him in context of like Ivy's fears in mine, and her like sadness and stuff. But I feel like you really got to delve into who he was as a person and who he became as a result of the love that they shared. And that was beautiful. Like, his speech at the end to her? Incredible, beautiful! The way he's just, like "because we shared something so pure and so, like," absolutely everything I would have wanted for Ivy. So I think you did a really great job at a task that I mean, frankly, I don't know if I could have done it. So, like, I think you did a really great job at being able to take what I was doing and the song and then contextualizing it all in this sort of like, well, what is this going to do for Judah?
[01:49:11.160] - Katarina
That's-- that's been like the hard part because like I've been with Judah since day one. He's been my little baby cowboy exorcist, as problematic as he may be. But like I, I want to see that evolution of him growing and trying his-- because like he is trying! And I need it to be that as fucked up as he is, he's trying. So how to make Ivy and Isaac about him is to make him realize it's not about him.
[01:49:44.700] - Adrienne
Wow. Growth. You know what that is? Growth.
[01:49:50.700] - Katarina
Yeah.
[01:49:51.220] - Adrienne
It's not about you!
[01:49:53.310] - Katarina
No, and this is, because I know we had talked a little bit about the implications with Willow and how we wanted Willow to be like brought back a little bit when she sees this and this is going to... In him, it's going to ignite the possibility that, like, oh, maybe there is something to this love bullshit. Like because I wanted in the beginning for him to be like a little bit bitter where he's like, "God damn it, I've been doing this shit for ten years. I guess I'm just fucked forever. This is fine." This is his low point. Again, he's like, hit a dip. But like he's, he's seen how, like love has helped Ivy and even Isaac. And he can be like, "my baby?"
[01:50:36.390] - Adrienne
"Can I see my girl again?" I'm glad. It's so funny, I feel like this happened in our last episode too, where I like went in being like "I want to fight Judah, I want to fight him, fight him, I hate him." And then I come out of it being like, "damn." It's like--
[01:50:57.600] - Katarina
It's the beauty of Judah.
[01:50:59.220] - Adrienne
Yeah, it's like God... damn it. Like, why? Anyway. What else did you kind of get from the songs stylistically? Like, I know you talked a little bit about it in terms of, you know, the imagery with Ivy and her...
[01:51:17.650] - Katarina
Being covered, yeah.
[01:51:18.760] - Adrienne
But as the writing process goes, is there anything... Is there anything else in the song that you kind of brought out that you thought was interesting or even maybe something that like you wanted to do but didn't do?
[01:51:34.270] - Katarina
Well, one of, like, another part of the song that I really loved, was I love how she's like in the chorus going, "oh, God damn." Like, I really like how she sings it, how she how she phrases it, and I liked how much energy was in there and how it really does sound like somebody who doesn't want to cave, but they're caving like, "God dammit, I'm back here. But it feels so good. It feels so wrong. But I don't want to be right," kind of a thing. So I wanted to capture as much of that energy as possible with the dichotomy of it, like, that he is going to basically play observer to. Right? Because the real main character, although it's-- although it's Judah in a technicality, the real main characters are Ivy and Isaac, and it's, it's how they feel about each other. Like I wanted Isaac to still be like a good guy and like, you know, because he's like a sweet man. But I wanted in his heart to feel like shit where he's like, "God damnit, I miss Ivy." Like I wanted him to think about like, oh, man, I can't wait. Like, not not I can't wait to die to see her again. But like the promise of one day being able to see her again meant he wasn't completely falling apart.
[01:52:49.110] - Adrienne
Yeah.
[01:52:50.360] - Katarina
Right? So if I could change anything, I would probably want to flesh that out a little bit more considering like I started and stopped this story three separate times. There are three separate word documents in my computer...
[01:53:06.070] - Adrienne
Oh my gosh.
[01:53:06.700] - Katarina
One of them was in the first person, too, which I thought I would try from last week. But it didn't fit this one at all. I wanted, at first, there to be an incident where Judah was straight up hurt in the beginning, so his injury would contribute to why he wasn't very helpful, because he was like recovering. And I was like, do I need to do that? Like, do I-- do I really need to have him be hurt to take him out of the game? And the answer was no. Like it was... It's his mental space that's keeping him from being able to save Ivy, not anything physical. So if I could, if I could change anything, really, it would just be maybe to give Isaac a bit more fluffing up. But since it's told from Judah's perspective, they'd have to spend time together and the story would be longer than the eight pages it ended up being. So.
[01:54:03.680] - Adrienne
Yeah, no, I definitely like what you ended up doing too. 'Cause like, again, like we talked about, it feels more like a sort of like growth moment for him to make the realization of, like, "it's not about me. I need to take a step back and let..."
[01:54:21.500] - Katarina
Yeah.
[01:54:21.950] - Adrienne
"Ivy and Isaac have their moment. This is about them." So I feel like that hit so much more powerfully, um, with the way that you chose to do it. And I think you did a good job with Isaac.
[01:54:36.650] - Katarina
Oh, thank you!
[01:54:37.460] - Adrienne
What I like is, like, I feel like the Isaac that's in your story feels very much in line with the Isaac that's in my story. I feel like there does feel like yours is just a more mature version of that guy. And I think that was really cool to see just because, you know, like, it's both of us just writing on our own. And we ended up being able to write the character similarly, especially since this is the first time he makes an appearance. So, like.
[01:55:08.120] - Katarina
That's true.
[01:55:08.640] - Adrienne
We, you, like neither of us, had any sort of like context to go on in terms of how to write him. I was fortunate with Ivy because, you know, you had kind of written her into the story that we had for Willow's episode. So I, I definitely went back and reread that story to be like, all right. How did you write her in that story? What kind of things did she do? And like, I kind of used that as a stepping stone to build her. But you didn't have that with Isaac. You had to just kind of go off of what I mentioned to you and you were able to really take that and create a character that's, like, believable, relatable, heartbreaking. And yeah, I think you just did, I think you did a really good job.
[01:56:00.460] - Katarina
Oh, thank you.
[01:56:01.390] - Adrienne
Yeah, I was just so I'm so impressed with your story, like it was so good, I can't stop saying that because it really just was like... I was in it. I was in it. I was there. I was like, my heart breaks for them.
[01:56:17.300] - Katarina
(Laughs) Yeah.
[01:56:18.610] - Adrienne
How do you feel your story ended up? This is kind of the final question before we segue into talking about both of our stories. How do you feel like your story did in terms of capturing the essence of the song?
[01:56:32.230] - Katarina
Well, I knew I wasn't going to be able to do it as well as as you, because your story hit closer, like much closer to the song, in my opinion, because yours was very much a fleshed out, more intricate view into that kind of situation. So for, for me, I think there were pieces of the song I think I was able to tap into. But admittedly, do, do people who read this with zero context get "Ivy" by Taylor Swift vibes? Probably not, with the exception of some of, you know, some of the visual imagery that I really wanted to-- to try and reinforce where like it's you know, she's covered by her desire and her love for this other man. It was, it was a struggle. I think I did OK, considering that the story was told from someone who wasn't involved in the affair, from the husband who provided said wine. So I think it was OK. Do I think it is a very, very strong tie in? No, but I think I did OK, consider.
[01:57:46.410] - Adrienne
I think you did a good job, you know. Like it, you had a very large task ahead of you. So I think the fact that you were able to execute on it so well is just really great. Um, like because I think you really did. You were able to marry the song into the story in ways that really, really bolstered up the emotional impact of it. And I think that's the like... I think that at the end of the day is what's really powerful about, you know, just us doing this is being able to take the emotions that the song like elicits out of us and then build it into something grand, wonderful, wild.
[01:58:32.690] - Katarina
Yeah. No. And it's, it's very different from, I think, even our wildest expectations for when we were planning this episode.
[01:58:41.180] - Adrienne
Now that we've read both stories, I think we kind of-- the two, well, the first question to ask is how do we think the stories complemented each other? And the song?
[01:58:53.030] - Katarina
I think, with that one slip of me not double checking to make sure that Isaac was aware that Judah was a dark magician, I think they actually meshed very well. I agree with you in that our Isaacs are really, really weirdly compatible, like they very much feel like the same character. I'm glad you told me in the notes that he had mousy brown hair because it was like, cool, going to build a whole personality around this sweet little field mouse. That's admittedly what I went with where I was like, OK, this is a gentle kind of lover. This is Cinderella 2. The baker who falls for the one stepsister. This is, like, he's-- he's like a sweet guy. And I'm really glad that I was able to somehow, through telepathy, tap into that energy that you had in your brain, because I feel like our Isaacs are perfect. Linearly? (Chef's kiss) they match up. I loved your description of Judah in the church, which like illuminated that one scene that I had in Willow, I loved how politically she played it. And I think that it compliments Judah's obliviousness in my story, in Ivy specifically, so well, because he doesn't know what effect his mischief has had on her. Like only in the barest sense did I touch on it in Willow. And in Ivy, with our stories juxtaposed, she puts so much thought into appearing to be the perfect wife and actually trying to be the perfect wife for him. And he could care less. He's so oblivious, like he's so unobservant and so focused. He's got his little blinders on and all he sees or cares about is Willow and getting out of his po-dunk town. And I, I'm glad that, like in... In my story, I'm finally able to wake him up to really what kind of woman she was that you crafted in yours. So I think the beauty of that meshed very well. And yeah, I think except for the one detail that I flubbed on, it, I think they went together perfectly. I was like *mwah*.
[02:01:14.040] - Adrienne
Yeah. And I feel like even that like minor detail where in my story she does kind of tell Isaac that he was a witch. I feel like it doesn't really matter because like she says it kind of so carelessly at the end that it would make sense that like 10 years later, he just like didn't even think about it. I think our stories really did work together very well. And I, uh, I really liked the way they kind of turned out that way in terms of complimenting each other. That serendipity with the lines at the end is just beautiful to me. I thought that was a beautiful touch and the lily imagery being able to take... Like, I just love the, you know, the image of like he comes, he brings this lily to her. It shatters the ground as they commit this sin of adultery. And then 10 years later he's frickin planting them!
[02:02:15.930] - Katarina
It's all he thinks of. "I'm going to bring you a lily today Ivy! My Ivy vine!"
[02:02:22.680]
"My Ivy vine!" 'Cause that, too like that lily, like that was the last time he saw her. That-- that would have been the last time he saw her 'cause she's like "stay away from me." And he does.
[02:02:33.660] - Both
And then she dies.
[02:02:37.550] - Adrienne
Then she, then she puts on that fuckin' ring and says, "nope, I'm going to be Ivy Masterson. I'm going to be the perfect wife and I'm going to do this because it's too late now. I've made my bed and I've got to lie in it." Yeah. So yeah, I think we did a good job meshing the stories and I think the song, you know, really, I think the song comes through in both of our stories. I think we did good, you know, despite how we were both struggling. This episode needed to happen. Like Ivy and Isaac and Judah's story needed to be told. I really wanted more from Ivy and I've come to love her in my own way. Because it was again, it was hard for me to get into that headspace. But like, I've, I've come to love and relate to her in new ways as a result of writing this story. And, um, again, the song "Ivy" is one of my favorites in a stand out. And if I can relate to a song, I can certainly relate to Ivy the character. We did good. Another episode in the books, Job Well Done. Do we-- Do you have any final thoughts on how this went? On the song? On the story?
[02:03:52.770] - Katarina
Just-- literally just that I'm so proud of us for pulling out stories that neither of us at the start of this were particularly proud of.
[02:04:03.300] - Adrienne
Yeah.
[02:04:04.800] - Katarina
But we, we both evoked emotion in each other and I feel like that's the beautiful test of whether or not we actually told a good story, whether or not we could actually evoke the emotions we were intending to and whether we could write them well enough to be entertaining and thought provoking, which I think they were. So kudos to us. Uh. Mazel Tov.
[02:04:29.530] - Adrienne
Yeah.
[02:04:30.900] - Katarina
Yeah, and that's really my final thought. I'm just, I'm just so proud of this community.
[02:04:36.360] - Adrienne
Yeah. (laughs)
[02:04:38.010] - Katarina
Tune in next time to hear the exciting continuation in the Judah Willow show. I'm kidding.
[02:04:44.310] - Adrienne
I mean, you're not kidding.
[02:04:46.330] - Katarina
I'm not kidding because I feel like we've left some doors open that need to be closed. So I know that you guys might be tired of hearing about this cowboy exorcist and his beloved poltergeist because no, we are not making an entire podcast about this cowboy, but his story needs to be finished before we can move on with our lives.
[02:05:10.560] - Adrienne
He, he has to go on one last ride.
[02:05:12.840] - Katarina
And then it'll be that. That'll be it. We promise.
[02:05:16.350] - Adrienne
Only one more. We promise guys.
[02:05:19.620] - Katarina
We promise. We're getting... We're getting sick of him living in our head rent free.
[02:05:23.350] - Adrienne
Yeah. This man puts me through so much emotional turmoil and trauma. Every time he opens his mouth, I'm like, you idiot, why do you do these things?
[02:05:33.210] - Katarina
I love that for you.
[02:05:34.050] - Adrienne
Like I love him and Willow together.
[02:05:36.630] - Katarina
But you're like, God damn is he toxic.
[02:05:40.800] - Adrienne
He's getting better, but.
[02:05:43.810] - Katarina
It's taken him how many years?
[02:05:46.490] - Adrienne
God help him.
[02:05:47.470] - Katarina
You know what? You know what? At least he's growing.
[02:05:50.060] - Adrienne
Yeah.
[02:05:50.890] - Katarina
It's all I can say.
[02:05:51.160] - Adrienne
He's trying. To quote another Taylor Swift song, "this is him trying."
[02:05:58.570] - Katarina
(Laughs) No, that's not what the song is going to be, although that would have been very funny.
[02:06:03.690] - Adrienne
No, that is not going to be the song. You'll just have to stay tuned.
[02:06:07.540] - Katarina
We're keeping that a secret. Yeah, we're keeping that a secret. So you're just going to have to listen.
[02:06:11.890] - Adrienne
Yeah. Well, now that we've done the damn thing, there's nothing left to do but say a big thank you to you for listening to this week's episode of Rhapsody in Reverie! If you like what you heard, be sure to like us and follow us on the Socials. We are @rhapsodypodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and we are @rhapsodyinreveriepodcast on Facebook. So come join us over there on the social channels. We'd love to have you. There's another place we'd also love to have you. It's in our Patreon community! Yay! If you like--
[02:06:52.600] - Katarina
Yay!
[02:06:53.310] - Adrienne
If you like what we do, you can get even more bonus content from us, including our live reactions to our stories as we read them out loud to each other. It is quite the fun time. I know for this one I could not stop myself from interjecting every time Judah did something stupid. If that's something you're interested in, be sure to join us. We'd love to have you. Also, if that's not your jam, we get it. But we hope that you'll subscribe to us on Apple podcast, Google podcast, Stitcher, Podbean, wherever you get your podcasts. Spotify, whatever you use. Subscribe to us there so you can get updated and notified every time we put out a new episode. You can also check our website for updates and announcements. We always post the new episode when it goes live on our website, so you can always check that. Rhapsodyinreverie.com for anything that we got cooking for you. So now that we've gone through all those things. You've got all the 411, that's all we got.
[02:08:09.510] - Katarina
And like we said, tune in, in two more weeks to hear the exciting conclusion of our cowboy exorcist and his faithful poltergeist, because you're in for a ride.
[02:08:22.050] - Adrienne
Oh yeah.
[02:08:22.980] - Katarina
A ride.
[02:08:23.160] - Adrienne
But until then. Ride on Cowboys.
[02:08:26.850] - Katarina
Ride on.